RSS want to change our langar and photos of our shaheeds?

[liberty]

http://www.sanghparivar.org/forum/harim ... f-amritsar

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HARIMANDIR SAHIB, GOLDEN TEMPLE & THE HOLY CITY OF AMRITSAR
Submitted by sarvasankalpasa... on Sat, 01/02/2010 - 21:17. General Discussion


MY RECENT VISIT TO HARIMANDIR SAHIB AT THE GOLDEN TEMPLE, AMRITSAR TURNED OUT TO BE A UNIQUE AND MEMORABLE EXPERIENCE. THE TEMPLE IS A UNIQUE SHIVALAYA WITH AMRIT-KUND AS THE JALAHARI AND SHABAD BEING POURED CONTINUOUSLY AS THE JALA OVER THE HARIMANDIR SAHIB. IT WAS TRULY AN EXHILERATING EXPERIENCE TO BEHOLD THE PRACTICE PERFECTLY IN HARMONY WITH THE ANCIENT VEDIC WISDOM OF GURU’S PRECEPTS BEING THE DEITY, GUIDING DEVOTEES TO THE ULTIMATE REALITY OF PARAM BRAHMA.

DURING TWO DAYS THAT I SPENT THERE, I DEDICATED MY DEEP REVERENCE FOUR TIMES AT THE HARIMANDIR SAHIB, ACCEPTED KARAA-PRASAD SEVERAL TIMES, DECLINED & RETURNED THE LANGAR-PRASAD DUE TO PRESENCE OF ONION AND GARLIC ( INSTEAD, I ACCEPTED KHEER ! ), VISITED SIKH-MUSEUM AND CAME OUT WITH BAD VIBES IN MY MIND…

WILL ANY ERUDITE SIKH SCHOLAR ANSWER MY FOLLOWING QUESTIONS TO ENLIGHTEN ME FORTHWITH, WITHOUT RESORTING TO RECRIMINATION AND HOSTILE ABUSES –



ONION & GARLIC ARE CONSIDERED AS TAMASIK / IMPURE FOODS, PROHIBITED IN PRASAD EVERYWHERE. THESE ARE NOT PERMITTED EVEN DURING ‘SHRAADDHA’. WHY IS IT BEING ADDED TO THE LANGAR-PRASAD AT THE GOLDEN TEMPLE ? SOME OF MY FRIENDS TELL ME, EARLIER THESE WERE NOT USED AT THE LANGAR AT ALL. THEN WHY IS IT NOT BEING DONE AWAY WITH IMMEDIATELY ?

GURU IS ALWAYS A MEANS TO THE ULTIMATE TRUTH. THAT IS WHAT GURU’S WISDOM i.e. SHABAD IS ALL ABOUT. WHATEVER SHABAD I HEARD OVER THERE WITH RAPT ATTENTION, IS ALL ABOUT RAM, GOVINDA AND SHIVA. THEN WHY SIKHS CALL THEMSELVES A SEPARATE RELIGION ? AND SEPARATE RACE TOO ! WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND BY 'SEPARATE RACE' ?? WHY DO THEY CALL THEMSELVES MONOTHEISTIC ? IN WHAT WAY ARE THEY MONOTHEISTIC ? THEN WHY DO THEY SCOFF AT WORSHIPPING RAM, GOVINDA AND SHIVA IN TEMPLES ? IF YOU ARE INCESSANTLY RECITING GLORIES OF RAM, GOVINDA AND SHIVA IN GURUMUKHI IN GURUDWARAS, THEN WHY ARE YOU AVERSE TO VISITING HINDU TEMPLES IN LARGE NUMBERS ON REGULAR BASIS ? WHEN YOUR ROOTS ARE SO DEEPLY ENTRENCHED AMONG HINDUS, THEN WHY SO MUCH HOSTILITY TOWARDS HINDUS ?? HOW IS THAT SIKHS DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE 'RAMJANMABHUMI MOVEMENT' ? THEN FOR LIBERATION OF 'KRISHNAJANMABHUMI' AS WELL AS KASHI VISHVANATHJI ? DO YOU SIKHS BELIEVE, YOU CAN SURVIVE AND FLOURISH WITHOUT HINDUS ?? DO YOU SIKHS BELIEVE THAT SIKHISM CAN SURVIVE IN ABSENCE OF HINDUISM ?? I DO UNDERSTAND SIKH HOSTILITY TOWARDS CONGRESS BUT CONGRESS DO NOT REPRESENT HINDUS. THEY REPRESENT EVERYBODY / ANYBODY EXCEPT HINDUS.

THEN I DID A LONG AND CONTEMPLATIVE SOJOURN THROUGH THE SO-CALLED SIKH MUSEUM. DON’T YOU FIND IT EMBARRASSING TO NAME IT ‘SIKH MUSEUM’, MEANING THEREBY, ‘SIKHS IN MUSEUM’ ?? WHY SHOULD IT NOT BE CALLED ‘MARTYR’S GALLERY’ INSTEAD ?

SACRIFICES WROUGHT BY THEM ARE SPLENDID, INCOMPARABLE AND WE ALL ARE DEEPLY INDEBTED TO THOSE GREAT SOULS.TODAY WE ALL ARE ENJOYING OUR FREEDOM OWING TO THE GREAT SACRIFICES DONE BY SO MANY OF US IN THE PAST.

HOW COULD YOU DECLARE JARNAIL SINGH BHINDERWALA, BALWANT SINGH, SATWANT SINGH AND KEHAR SINGH AS MARTYRS ? BHINDERWALA DID ALL SORTS OF NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES WHICH DEFILED THE HOLY PRECINCTS OF THE TEMPLE. THEN WHY DEIFY HIM AS A MARTYR ? HOW COULD SATWANT SINGH, BALWANT SINGH AND KEHAR SINGH BE CLASSIFIED AS MARTYRS WHO KILLED THEIR OWN PROTECTEE, AS HER BODYGAURDS ?? THAT TOO, AN UNARMED WOMAN ?? THAT TOO, A WIDOW ?? WHAT SORT OF MARTYROLOGY IS IT ? YOU DECLARED IT ‘REVENGE’ WITH A VENGEANCE IN THAT FOOTAGE. WHAT SORT OF REVENGE IS IT ?? IS REVENGE OUR DHARMA ?? IS IT THE WAY TO TAKE REVENGE ??

DESCRIPTION AS A FOOTAGE OF BHINDERWALA’S POTRAIT USES THE WORDS ‘BHARATIYA FAUJ’ !!! DOES NOT ‘BHARATIYA FAUJ’ BELONG TO THE ENTIRE SIKH COMMUNITY ? THIS IS THE SAME ‘BHARATIYA FAUJ’ THAT DID ‘KAR SEWA’ IN LARGE NUMBERS AFTER FACING BULLETS OF BHINDERWALA AND MAJ. GEN. SHUBEGH SINGH BAREFOOT, WITH MINIMUM RESISTANCE. THEN THEY DONATED HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY OUT OF THEIR SALARIES TO THE ‘AKAL TAKHT’. THERE ARE SO MANY MARBLE PLAQUES FIXED ALL OVER, DECLARING THEIR STERLING CONTRIBUTIONS IN REBUILDING THE TAKHT. THEN WHY THIS SENSE OF AVERSION, THEIR REVERENCE / DEDICATION BEING SNEERED AT THROUGH THE PHRASE ‘ BHARATIYA FAUJ’ ???

THEN TO MAINTAIN DISTANCE FROM HINDUISM, IT IS SAID THAT THERE HAVE BEEN ADDITIONS TO THE ‘SGGS’ BY SOME ‘FAQUIRS’. LET ME TELL YOU WITH MAXIMUM EMPHASIS AT MY COMMAND, NO MUSLIM ‘FAQUIR’ HAD BEEN A TRUE ‘FAQUIR’. THEY WERE ALL MUSLIMS, OUT TO DESTROY THE SO-CALLED ‘KAFIRS’ AND CONVERT THEM TO ISLAM. HOW IS THAT THOSE ADDITIONS HAVE NOT BEEN DELETED FROM THE ‘SGGS’ ?? THAT TOO, AFTER SO MUCH OF TORTURE AND OPPRESSION BY THOSE MUGHAL BIGOTS AND DESPOTS UPON THOSE BRAVE HINDUS / SIKHS ??

THESE WERE THE QUESTIONS THAT RANKLED MY MIND WHILE DEPARTING FROM THE HOLY CITY OF AMRITSAR. AFTER HARIDWAR, UJJAIN, OMKARESHVARA, VARANASI AND TIRUPATI, IT WAS THE TURN OF THE HOLY CITY OF AMRITSAR TO IMPRESS ME AND WIN MY HEART & MIND.

WILL MY KHALSA BROTHERS EXPLAIN TO ME ON ALL THESE POINTS, ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS AND SETTING ALL THOSE DOUBTS AT REST ???

MAY I APPEAL TO THE SGPC / AKAL TAKHT TO BAN USE OF ONION & GARLIC AT THE LANGAR AND WITHDRAW POTRAITS OF BHINDERWALA, BALWANT SINGH, KEHAR SINGH AND SATWANT SINGH FROM THE MUSEUM ??



VANDE MAATARAM I



RAMAKANT TIWARI

--------------- from rss website :\ -------------

[PunjabSingh]

This has become a big issue here in Punjab.
After this issue was raised the liar RSS agent Makkar said that RSS people had told him on phone that RSS had removed the article from it's website.
This was reported by the pro Badal/RSS/Derawaad paper Ajit .

But any one can see that Makkar and Ajit have lied and the article is still there on their website .

[PunjabSingh]

In the above article you must have noticed that RSS has raised doubts and wants Muslim sufi saints like Bhagat Kabir and Baba Farid's baani out of Guru Granth Sahib.

RSS is trying it's best to hinduize Sikhism and to prove that Sikhs and Muslims are enemies.They want us to forget all that various Muslims did for Sikhs and Sikh Gurus even at the risk of their lives.

Sikhs have not been anti Muslim but have always been against oppression and tyrany be it Moghuls,Afghans,Angrej and now Brahmins.

[PunjabSingh]

All the controversial issues amongst Sikhs like Dasam Granth,Nanakshahi Calendar are deliberately not being solved at the behest of RSS with the help of Badal,Makkar,Dhumma so that Sikhs remain confused.

[shinda]

I tried to answer Tiwiri , i tried to put my comments on the RSS site they did not publish it.

Below my Answers to Tiwari ..

Although I am not a vidwan but will try to answer your questions.

ONION & GARLIC, let me tell you that in SGGS(Shri Guru Granth Shaib) there is no food which is TAMASIK / IMPURE FOODS. Only food which prohibited by SGGS is not earned by you or your parents when you are young or any unhealthy food. Sikhs have one Authenticated authority which is only SGGS. I know some Sikhs also believe in not eating certain foods and also not eating foods cooked in certain utensils and also not eating food cooked by none-amritdhari (person who is not baptized to Sikhism), but that is their thinking and believe, none Guru did that and neither such procedure is mentioned in SGGS. Guru Nanak’s philosophy was not about eating type of foods, but was about love each other, doing right deeds and meditating one God’s name. Human have been living on this earth from thousands of years and foods of theirs have been always different. What we are eating today human may will not be eating after 10000 years or so. Thus eating onions and garlic is not Sikhism philosophy, it is very much individual’s choice and right. Some will say onion is Tamasik other will say other vegetables, Sikhism is not suppose to follow all that but only to listen to SGGS, and as Guru Granth Shaib ji does not talk about eating and not eating types of food but condemn being used to/found of to any type of food and living style. In Punjabi it is called ‘chaska’ not allowed. Therefore cooking foods with Onions and garlic is not an issue for Sikhism.


ABOUT RAM, GOVINDA AND SHIVA. SGGS never claims that ONE has a name; all these names are given to ONE by his devotees looking at ONE’s qualities. In Gurbani word Ram for ONE has been used many times. RAM means ‘ramiya hua’ lives in his creation, this is why one of his name is Ram. Thus are his other names. Remember that he does not have name, remember name is given by parents usually. SGGS says ONE was never born he created himself thus never had parents and was never given a name. So by giving him these name Gurus are still talking about ONE not about any individual who lived or lives on this earth as human being. SGGS does not differentiate between humans, so Sikh should not have any feelings that they are special human beings. They should love all, but they are not Hindu, Muslim or Christen, they are Sikhs because they believe in ONE and Gurus and their ‘bani’ means SGGS. Remember that none is of his names is reserved for particular religions. Word Allah is also used several times by SGGS stating ONE , and it is used by Guru’s , Bhagats and Fakirs , Does this mean Sikhs are Muslims now? For more information you can read a book written by Bhai Kaan Singh Naba’hum Hindu nahi’.

MARTYRS? You should know that all Martyers of wars of 1965, 1971 with Pakistanis are not believed MARTYRS of Pakistan they are only MARTYRS of India and same in Pakistan. Lets not talk about Bhagat Singh but Chandar Sekhar Ajad , every Indian is proud of him, he is one of the MARTYR and loved by all Indians but was he loved by British , if so he wouldn’t have been killed. For them he was just a ‘dakku’ who used to loot trains and kill people. So remember MARTYRS are heroes of one side enemies of other side. If we talking about JS Bhindernwale , all Sikhs who are proud of him will embarrassed if Indian army does same to Shiv Sena , who are talking about separating Maharashtra from India, this is what JSB was blamed for by Indian Government.

Talking about killing unarmed woman, can you explain ‘Balli vadh; in Ramayana, Karan, Dron, and Ganga Putar’s vadh in Gita. Why there is no problem when Krishna said ‘Adharm ko marne ke liye Adharm ka shara liya ja sakta ha’. Kiiling more than 5000 innocent people which included new born babies and people older than 90s, attacking more than 40 Gurudwars , destroying Darbar Shiab, on the name of one terrorist JSB (army had excuse that he was terrorist). Was it not adharm?

As I mentioned above that on the name of one terrorist(?) JSB army killed thousand of the people although blame should be collective but still being army of nation, Indian army had much more responsibilities than terrorists, thus it is called ‘BHARATIYA FAUJ’ a army from other nation who attacked a religion’s most important, respected and beloved place with tanks. What else should they be called? As I have mentioned before Sikhs would be shamed if army does that again with SS when situation is worse than 1984.

Bani Of Muslim Faquir. Guru Granth Shaib was completed by 5th Guru Arjan dev ji , who included the bani of those , whose bani matched with Guru Nanak’s Philosophy and talked about ONE only. Guru Arjan dev ji did not differentiate anyone on their jaat or dharm (classism) but looked at theme of their bani . So all this has been done by 5th Guru ji and accepted by all 5 Gurus who were on position after Guru Arjan Dev ji, Sikhs have accepted from ages, now to delete any bani from SGGS only one has right is Guru Arjan dev ji. If Sikhs believe that there is someone available who is as great as 5th Nanak then he can do the amending, but not before he tells the reason.

I hope have helped you with your question, if you really want to have more details please consult with Sikh vidhwaan, there are several of them

[liberty]

As I mentioned above that on the name of one terrorist JSB army killed thousand of the people although blame should be collective but still being army of nation, Indian army had much more responsibilities than terrorists, thus it is called ‘BHARATIYA FAUJ’ a army from other nation who attacked a religion’s most important, respected and beloved place with tanks. What else should they be called? As I have mentioned before Sikhs would be shamed if army does that again with SS when situation is worse than 1984.

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i respect your sikhsi views BUT SANT JARNAIL SINGH JI BHINDRANWALE wasn't a terrorist!!
and if you think he was then it is definitely your lack of knowledge!!!
he was respected by mahapurakhs like SANT MASKEEN SINGH JI.. AND MANY OTHER
He was a KHALSA!! and by calling him a terrorist you are also going against what sikhs believe in.. !! he is respected by most Sikhs.. if you think he was a terrorist then you really have a LOT to learn!!!!!
i would like to know why you feel that way about Sant ji .. he changed the shape of punjab.. he made Boys into real Men he made them into Sipahis and Sants!!

[shinda]

Thanks.

Yep I never called anybody terrorist, what I meant that Indian Army or government attacked the Golden temple by the name of it. The excuse they had to attack the place was that they are catching a terrorist called JSB, which was wrong. That is all I meant, I was not writing about JSB so there was no point for me mentioning him terrorist or saint. I was only trying to answer some question Tiwari has raised. No body has right tell us to change the bani, change our procedures and no one has right to decide who are our Martyrs. That is all I was trying not to decide on JSB.

Now off the topic, regardless ke mainu sant ji vare kina pata ki tusi mainu chanana pavoge ke ohna di sikh panth nu ki den c. Keonke sant main v ohna nu manda likan kush questions da answer mere kol nahi ha, so please tusi kush daso ohna vare, inj parteet hunda ke tahnu kafi knowledge ha.

[liberty]

Thanks..Hanji Veerji Menu kaafi knowledge hai..!! First of all I would liek to say that PLEASE DON'T TYPE initials of Sant Ji's Name.. its sorta disrespectul... I don't know if you realize it or not.. But i personally don't like it so If you want my Heartbeat to go a lil calmer then please write the full name!!!!!!

Here is a poem someone wrote about sant ji I think it shows ki ohna di ki dehn c

Jina Naina(n) Kare Deedar Tere
O Jhukey Nahi Sarkaaran To
Jina Kana(n) Sun Laye Bol Tere
O Na Ghabraye Mara(n) To
O Jawania(n) Mauto(n) Nai Daria(n)
Ik Var Jo Tainu Cho Gayia(n)
Teri Yaad Ch Likhia(n) Nazma Jo
Ajj O V "Bhaagi" Ho Gayia(n)
- Written by unknown

This shows how sant ji changed masses..he continues to inspire the youth today because of him and ofcourse vaheguroo di kirpa many people that had forgotten the path of sikhi come back..He inspired thousands to take amrit keep the rehit - this isn't an easy task He was a Great Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji a saacha Singh because He wasn't afriad to die.. He stood up for Sikhi he lived according to Sikhi and Died for Sikhi..
He wasn't like other leaders He actually cared about Sikhi and the Sikhs thats why he had it in him to give sucha big kurbani that isn't just hard but is only given if one has saacha pyar for something..

He was a Sant that is why he was able to do all that.. thats why he was able to change so many people.. Sant ji was able to earn that pyar from people and was able to become an inspiration because he was a saacha Guru da Singh..!
its not easy to make a drugie into a Sant and he was able to inspire the youth and make it (the youth) into sant sipahi
He gave people to w/stand he tortures and still not fall from the path of righteousness..
He inspired many to give up their lives w/ smile on their face.. w/ no fear in their eyes
There is a story about him : This one night he was sleeping on a manjha and Gutka Sahib were on the Little Fatti (i don't know what you call that in angreji hope u know wht i mean) over his manjha As Gutka Sahib fell on Sant Jis feet he woke right up and started crying out loud.. people were terrified after they saw him like that because they saw him cry like that for the first time..
He didn't Speak to anyone He took ishnaan and did Akhand Paath without taking a single break!!
This was his pyar.. One can't even imagine having so much pyar w/ Gurbani..if i was in sant jis place i wuldnt have even done ardaas for the maafi cos we are not Sants like him we can't even understand what Sants are..
all we know is how to doubt others.. how to look for flaws in others..
We don't know how to give up our Life for Sikhi.. We don't know how to walk on foot steps of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.. Baba Deep Singh Ji.. Sant ji Did..!!
Is there anything else you would like to know about SANT JARNAIL SINGH JI KHALSA BHINDRANWALE??

[shinda]

Bahot Meharbani veer ji,, tusi kafi time kad ke likhiya answer. Sukkriya tohwada ji.

Please note that I am not belonging to any political party so please don’t mind my questions. The questions I am going to ask you because I lost the debate, I could not answer couple of questions in debate. I see you the right person so may be you can help me.

Question number 1. I have watched his videos collected from net and friends and helpful people like you. In one of the video he (SANT JARNAIL SINGH JI KHALSA BHINDRANWALE) was saying that he threatened a Police office for not returning his van that if he does not return the van by 5pm he will kill 5000 Hindus. This was his statement and I am sure that you must have seen that video you seem to be his great fan like me. Now the question is 'why would a sant threaten' if the officer would have not returned the van was he going to kill 5000 Hindus , killing that number I dont think anyone can pick 5000 guilty people in one go so definitely he meant any one who is hindu regardless to innocent or guilty people. Other thing, is there any example in history where any guru ji (or any great Sikh such Baba Deep Singh ji ) did that, I mean threatened or kill people in revenge. I don’t find any example, please let me know if there is one.

Question number 2. We all know that Sikhs were betrayed by Indian government in many manners after independents. Our kaum really struggled for everything (anyway still struggling), we struggled for our land our name, or language and lot of more things and each of these demand coasted us lots of qurbanies. No government ever felt pity and kept on doing all those brutal things to us/sikhs. Now by the time saint ji stood in front and took the responsibility and was loved by everyone he knew that Indian Army(govt) is planning to attack our place. I watched the videos where Sant ji is saying that I know army is planning to attack Harminder Shaib very soon. The reason army was giving that time was to catch him. We know that army some how was looking for a chance to kill sikhs as many as possible but they were looking for the right excuse. Now when army was building up excuse that they were about to catch Sant ji by entering to the place, WHY sant ji never thought of moving away from the place and challenging them to catch him on other place where when the war goes on, no innocent people will be killed only the army and sikhs worries would have died. Why sant ji did not do that when this would have saved many innocent lives and knowingly that is army is looking for a chance to kill any numbers of sikhs possible. Please answer this with example from history where Guru ji's fought with mugal or Hindu kings involved innocent’s killing, I don’t find any. I have so many opposite example the most popular one is when mugal fauj was following Guru ji he did not take shelter in a town but he took shelter very far from the town in kachi haweli (garri) at Mukatsar so that when the fight takes place no one from the town was heart.

Veer ji please answer me many questions from these 2 question, I will be really thankful to you. If I get the proper answer I will go back and have the debate again. I know it gonna cost you time. I will really be thankful to you.

And about calling Sant ji with initials, why you think it is a problem, how come I did not see your comment when people are saying wjkwjk for Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fathe on this site many times. Do you mean any Sant is more important than Waheguru.

[liberty]

I AM NOT A VEERJI!!!!!!! CALL ME BHENJI!!