meat

[liberty]

well fruits and vegetables are swelled up ovaries.. we arent taking their life are we? they grow back even if we cut an inch or two
in the shbd kabeer ji say that.. you are taking a life for something that isnt alive the point of that shbd is to wake people up from what they do as a ritual to please god.. so he is saying that you are taking a life (leaves) for something that isnt living(murti)

vegetables and fruits are swelled up ovaries i will look it up and post a website.. lol
g2g now my moms yelling at me!

[liberty]

Libby Sande argued in a blog for USA Today that Vegetarianism reduces E. coli infections,[61] and in a piece for The New York Times linked E. coli contamination in food to industrial scale meat and dairy farms.[62] E. coli infections in the US during 2006 were traced to spinach and onions.[63][dead link][64]

Transmission of pathogenic E. coli often occurs via fecal-oral transmission.[65][66][67] Common routes of transmission include unhygienic food preparation[66] and farm contamination.[68][69][70] Dairy and beef cattle are primary reservoirs of the E. coli strain O157:H7,[71] and they can carry it asymptomatically and shed it in their feces.[71] Food products associated with E. coli outbreaks include raw ground beef,[72] raw seed sprouts or spinach,[68] raw milk, unpasteurized juice, and foods contaminated by infected food workers via fecal-oral route.[66] In 2005, some people who had consumed triple-washed, pre-packaged lettuce were infected with E. coli.[73] In 2007, packaged lettuce salads were recalled after they were found to be contaminated with E. coli.[74] E. coli outbreaks have been traced to unpasteurised apples,[75] orange juice, milk, alfalfa sprouts,[76] and water.[77]

Salmonella outbreaks have been traced to peanut butter, frozen pot pies & puffed vegetable snacks.[78] BSE, also known as mad cow disease, is linked by the World Health Organization to Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease in humans.[79]

There have been reports of fears of foot-and-mouth disease in sheep, PCBs in farmed salmon, mercury in fish, dioxin concentrations in animal products, artificial growth hormones, antibiotics, lead and mercury,[80] pesticide contamination of vegetables and fruits, banned chemicals being used to ripen fruits.[81][82][83]



Sikhi teaches Compassion which suggests that one should not eat meat!
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Daya


You have no compassion; the Lord’s Light does not shine in you.
You are drowned, drowned in worldly entanglements.(4)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_of_eating_meat#Pain



PLANTS ARE ALIVE : Plants are not static or silly,” said Monika Hilker of the Institute of Biology at the Free University of Berlin. “They respond to tactile cues, they recognize different wavelengths of light, they listen to chemical signals, they can even talk” through chemical signals. Touch, sight, hearing, speech. “These are sensory modalities and abilities we normally think of as only being in animals,” Dr. Hilker said.


Plants are alive but then again.. the fruits and vegetables are just the swelled up ovaries..!! like human ovaries plants ovaries are also part of them.. they are never going to eat those why should we?
why should we kill a cow or another animal when we have plant ovaries to eat..
plant ovaries provide nutrition too!!

[shinda]

. I read your post, thanks.

I dont believe in wikipedia sites as anybody can just write anything there, but anyway thanks sending the link. You know there is no way that we can prove that vegetables dont feel pain, if they are alive and they can talk through chemicals they have then surely they feel the pain. We dont eat veggitables when they are no more dry, we always eat them when they are still green , which means they are still alive. If gurbani says that there is life in them, then there is no doubt that there is life in them. To eat them we will have to kill them, killing is painful for sure.

In one of my previous post I wrote that, if we dont eat meat does not matter why but we should not just assume that this is religion or if we eat meat we should not claim that that is part of religion. Neither these two person (veggie and Non-veggie) should hate each other because of that. It should remain individual’s choice, all human beings have brain they should know what to eat and what to not. If you are allergic to any kind of food or doctors have condemned you not eat certain food don’t eat it. Dont eat any unhealthy food.

That daleen you gave that if we dont eat veggies they will dry and die,, that is not good daleel at all ,, can you tell me what will happen to a cow if it is not eaten ?

As per the Sikhism, if we take our 'rehet maryada' then we should not eat halal meat, we should stick to that. Or don’t eat meat at all if you are not sure but don’t claim that , this is right way. This could be right way for you.

other thing you talked about 'diya', let me tell you that In Guru Granth Shaib ji there are several sabads on 'diya', but give me one sabad when diya is meant for animals/birds/insects also. If that is the case then there is lots things we doing wrong, firstly farmers are biggest sinners then, because to save their cultivations they spary lots of poisoning medicines to kill insects and birds. Do you mean that is not sin now? When we spray those medicines/chemical we kill lots of innocents insects. So i dont think diya is used for animals or insects or birds diya is used for human being only. if you dont agree please give me sabad which says diya on animals clearly.

So please dont use any sadab for anything. Not eating meat is your choice and that is good no body should have issue with that, and same with meat eaters

[Jagdip Singh Bajwa]

liberty and shinda bro do u s have a facebook page or any networking page

i wanna see who us are.......if thats k with u s

[liberty]

thanks for the reply veerji!!
the stuff i posted says that plants are alive but then the fruits are their swelled up ovaries i am not denying what gurbani says..
plants probably dont feel pain..
like i said before vegetables are just swelled up ovaries.. eating (if you say is hurting them) is still not taking their life whereas eating meat is killing an animal its just inhumane to me... its just inhumane.. so i dont think one can be a meateater and be spiritual at the same time..
killing plants would them be if take the leaves or something..
i am not saying eating meat makes you a sinner.. but i just dont understand how spirituality and being non vegetarian can go together..
i have had halal meat and the other meat.. but i stopped andeh and everything else after i got into sikhi because taksal says meat is wrong.. i go by what they say..!! all those great kirtanias i know from akj dont eat meat either.. i cant see myself eating it again!!

farmers spray the vegies so their crops could grow.. so they could feed themselves..
in the end.. gurbani is PRO ENVIRONMENT!! its about loving the world because vaheguroo created it seeing the jot in every BEING!!
seeing it in leaves...!!! and everything else..!! that suggests that humans should be Green!! not eat animals!!
eating fruits doesnt hurt the environment so to me that is the right thing to do..
and to me sikhi suggests that it is the right thing as well!!

[liberty]

yeah you can add me on facebook!! but my settings are weird so u cant add me unless ur friends with one my my friends.. you can still try though http://www.facebook.com/pyarideep

[shinda]

Oh mere pyare bhen liberty ji,

ehh ta bahot changi gal ha ke tusi taksaal nal judde hoye , that is great. rab ne mehar keti fir tusi vakiya hi bahot kush sikh jaoge. I heard that Taksaal was started by Baba Deep Singh ji. Great.

Bhen ji tusi galan nal nahi sabat kar sakde ke fruits nu pain nahi hundi , je ohna ch jaan ha te ohna nu pain te hundi hovegi.. Please mainu sabad daso Gurbani de jis vich meat khan di manahi ha.. I heard that Taksali talks about 21 sabads or more from Gurbani which are condemning from eating meat.. Tusi te mainu oh sabads pata karke das hi sakde ho.

Dekho main dusiya ha ke main meat nahi khanda na mainu koyi hor khane da chaska, main apni maa nu v kade nahi c kiha ke ajj sabji/roti savad nahi bani te na hi apni wife nu kade kiha .. so mainu meat nal koyi matlab nahi ha..

But mere gareeb di ekko sanka ha ki ehh Gurbani ch mana ha ke aven galan ne.. je mana ha ha te mainu siraf sabad dus devo page numbers nal main dekh lavanga.. tusi ess gareeb te enni kirpa kar deo ji..tusi taksaali ho tusi kar sakde ho..

Main ehh manda haan ke Gurbani elahi furman ha koyi food tear karan di Recipes nahi ,, but je tusi mainu sabad dus deo ta main dekh ke pata kar lavanag je vakiya hi mana ha ta main man lavanga ,, meri ki akuat ke Gurbani ch likhi gan na mana..

Kirpalta karna ji..

[shinda]

Sorry Bhen ji I read your post agian.

One more question.

you said """"""its just inhumane.. so i dont think one can be a meateater and be spiritual at the same time""""

Hitler was vegetarian. And Mother Teresa was non-vegetarian, now who do you think was spiritual ???

Kirpalta karan ji..

[Dannysingh]

Try eating grass, u'll know immediately its not meant for human consumption.
Try eating non-veg (meat,fish,chicken,egg etc), and u'll understand nature has given humans all thats required to digest n assimilate it.
End of discussion

[JSinghJudge]

i heard guru gobind singh ji used to hunt...
and also i just got back from india n there is a place where nihungs serve prashad or goat meat..
halal meat is bad that is written in the gurbani but i hear that banda singh bahudar is the one who started to rule that we cant eat meat as a whole... not guru gobind singh ji... during the times of when singhs used to be living in forests they hunted at meat, now one may argue that they had no other choice.. but then again why would the 10th guru himself hunt if it was bad? it is said that killing animals for fun is bad but killing one to eat isnt as ive heard... i also heard there was a fight between bandai khalsa which was the group who beleived banda bahadur was some what of a guru, and another group of sikhs who purely beleived in the 10 gurus thats it.. it happened at amiritsar if anyone has any info on that it;d be great because it would help bring out facts for the topic